I suppose its to be expected when a group separates itself from the larger world, believing that out there is sin and in here is safe, assuming that they only have the truth (and the whole truth, too) and anything they dont know doesnt really exist except as sin. Just even simple logic would say that if its a shame for a man to cover his head (Christ) because he is the glory of Christ and that would bring dishonor to Christ then for a woman to cover her head (male) because she is the glory of male that would bring dishonor to him! _________________________. This round, Nick and Audrey Spitz are running their own detective agency. He also runs an organization called Ministry Safe. Smart move! Despite their ups and. I dont know if that makes any sense at all. He often will be good to those who are loyal to him (as long as they are) since they reflect his glory back to him. In describing its mission, Vision Forum calls the family the basic agency of dominion on earth, one that is under attack from every side today., Phillips is a leader among conservative Christians who reject birth control and believe that large families are a sign of Gods blessings, as seen in his friends Jim Bob and Michelle Duggars family on TLCs 19 Kids and Counting. He preaches a message of biblical patriarchy, in which a man is called to rule over his household and the God-ordained and proper sphere of dominion for a wife is the household.. They should never have been put in a heck if you do and heck if you dont situation by perpetrators. @ Nancy: Genuine genius and wisdom require a blend of brain/heart. Doug Phillips Bio Doug Phillips is a father of 3 and a husband to his brilliant wife, Becca. Marie2 wrote: P, how did you feel when you were allegedly chased down the street by Torres family after attempting (allegedly) to crawl through her bedroom window?. Somehow I missed the letter of compassion and concern for my family this year. Carson article on the Gospel Coalition website, and I saw a prominently placed ad for this website on the right side of the page: The woman and the man both belong to God, equally. But sweet when applied to an adult female usually carries the meaning of childish, rather simple minded and insipid and somebody on whom the scut work can be dumped and she will let that happen to her. Minister, Mob hit-man, wife-beater, disabled Vietnam Vet. I am plain not fancy. I may have hopes about the outcome. But once again, bringing it back to Mr. Wilson as apparently is the nature of how all things must (hopefully) eventually go, at least in his mini-cosmos of Moscow I have two concluding thoughts. Anyone and everyone interested in a documented, ground-level, first person, insider account of the Doug Wilson cult, PLEASE email Michael Metzler directly (he gives his email address on his blog: [email protected]), and ask him for his 100+ page story. Lake Superior State University in Michigan and Algoma University and Sault College of Applied Arts in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario. Yet, it would be wise for us to reserve ulitmate judgment. Douglas Phillips, the man who founded Vision Forum Ministries, spoke strongly about family values, modesty/purity, about the role of fathers in Christian home, loving their wives, etc. Gag. He modified his abuse to suit the personalities of each of his five children, and he went about it methodically. Undoubtedly true. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/06/notes-from-jwr-686.html. But that doesnt bother him (unless hes caught at it) because he much prefers wit to wisdom. However, his passion for the faith does come through. But despite her continued presence and availability, the complaint alleges that during the entire time she was incapable of giving consent. It says this because it is clear that there were instances where she did give consent, and her attorney wants to say that she was in effect in the position of a minor when she did so. If clarity is central to writing, how good of a communicator (let alone a comedian) can you be when people cant even understand why your jokes are funny? And, thankfully, the backlash to Wilson has been vehement and loud and sustained enough, particularly from his close neighbors in his small town who actually know enough about him, to all but neuter this old bull. But he was right in saying that it was complicated. Its 30 minutes long, but is a wealth of info concerning the scope of abuse. So Guidepost "determined that using Twitter was no longer an option for them." . Saying yes to one activity once does not equal giving consent to every possible activity at every possible time before and after. The specific terminology, however, is condescending and offensive, and is frequently intended to be just that. Doug did not hear them. @ Rafiki: Pingback: Lourdes Torres-Manteufel vs Doug Phillips Lawsuit Informational Resource Page | Spiritual Sounding Board. Beyond that, whoever she really is, likely was a part of this movement and is unlikely to be forgiven as easily as Doug will be, because she's not Doug Phillips. Church Discipline But I do understand from this case, that Lourdes often told Doug to stop it, that she would have derived no personal pleasure from being semened-upon, and that she was the one who finally put a stop to it. He also wouldnt want to offend the dear ladies tender ears with terms like perv and lech. I read some of his version 2.0 blog yesterday. He is also a leader in Reconstructionism. I continue to believe that this whole thing should be sorted through by Christians, with a view to our testimony before a watching world. His supporters are lauding his resignation . Please make an announcement when you get that blog post done. This is about the widespread perception that there is impending chaos and destruction and people want themselves / their people / their group / their religion / their way of life to be what survives. I mean, that shtick is straight out of a porn flick! Apparently this was such a relationship. Please note, this is part one of my response as well. Yours is the kinda reaction I was hoping for. Something in Idaho water? Despite the general leanings of the law in this area, until the facts are known, that is impossible to state with certainty. Thought that was resolved with the Nicene Creed? His wife is Beall Phillips Doug Phillips Net Worth His net worth has been growing significantly in 2021-2022. Fear is a huge component in these circles fear of the government, fear of public schools, etc. Bringing it all back to the lawsuit filed by Lourdes Torres-Manteufel, assuming the timeline put together with the help of insiders is accurate, Doug Phillips was FIRST confronted about the appearance of improprieties with the then Ms. Torres in 2008, a full five years before he confessed to an improper relationship. He can follow ideas through, but drops them when he gets bored. No he isnt a fool. of the means or instrument by which anything is effected . From his book, SOUTHERN SLAVERY AS IT WAS: Slavery as it existed in the South was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive racial animosity. Those who need to be convinced of the evil in much of Wilsons worldview are the ones in thrall to his intelligence. And so you have a magnet for those whose iron is set toward wanting intellectual consistency, theological validity, and practical guidance for navigating in the wild frontiers of a post-Christendom world. How much courage does it take to kick a man who is out of business, out of ministry, and publicly humiliated? I get that. Doug Phillips, a native of nearby New Middletown, Ohio, is in his fourth season as the Head Football Coach at Youngstown State. And now, we have to say of music, art, literature, philosophy: Well, you know, give em a break, its only Christian.. If the secular courts are tasked with judging correctly, surely we should try to do the same thingor else quit the field and leave these issue to people who can be objective. or came it unto you only? Something isnt either more Biblical or less Biblical than what went before, it could also be just another way of doing something, equally right as the other way. On the legal aspect of this, it is usually not good to predict the outcome of lawsuits unless one knows all of the facts. Slavery is mentioned in the Bible. Abusers do not have permission or rights to harm man or woman. Our youngest daughter, Leah was married this week to Alexei, a wonderful young man! Phillips also takes a dim view of women in the public sphere, saying it is not the ordinary and fitting role of women to work alongside men as their functional equals outside the home in business, government and the military. My comment was in no-wise meant to single you out. Do they do not have voices to become members? We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. In that case, Wilson sat on the abusers side of the courtroom and argued for leniency on sentencing. I saw her profile picture and she seemed to look a little more secular, so I was curious if anyone has kept up with them since? As always Brad, you provide a salient analysis. In fact, an accident almost cost the two their marriage. Deb 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. IMO. I think I am going to start a cult. I have enjoyed reading your insights! Was trying to find a specific D.A. Thats not in ID) or sickening authoritarian patriarchs protecting child monsters(can you say, Fundamental LDS Church, also NOT of Idaho!) We have estimated =#comment-140951 title=Go to comment of this author>Rafiki: hi! (eternal subordination of the Son). I tried all sorts of small things when I was being abused, while also filled with shame and aware that any open attempt would be met with condemnation. Facebook gives people the power to. And even by the narrowest literal understanding of Matthew 18, it was Biblical. Fundamentally flawed people can possess charisma of a sort, yet lack fundamental reasoning skills and discernmentand mislead many. Why is it, folks, that having the proper anti-gay beliefs is the most important Gospel marker out there? Today's Anniversary. Patriarchy versus more egalitarian views. It seems conservative evangelicalism is going where it has never gone. At university I studied medieval history for three years, and I was able to see immediately that Wilsons arguments were pure poppycock: they revealed a complete and utter lack of understanding of the Middle Ages. He has resigned from all of his positions of authority, he and his family have vacated the residence in which they lived, and Vision Forum is no longer in operation. Two of the reasons (not the only two) that we are a dominant species on earth is due to our aggression and due to our sexual success. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.. The related for-profit company was paid $193,176 in 2011by the nonprofit for labor and services,according to records. This is interesting stuff. At the same time, of course, we should make allowances for those situations where an abused girl was never given the opportunity to become a responsible adult. Another theological innovation is the integrated family church. And now, we have to say of music, art, literature, philosophy: Well, you know, give em a break, its only Christian.. A good defense lawyer could shred this poor woman on a witness stand in cross examinationa few of her claims could be seen as exaggerated. Yeah, its not funny. I have. Outside of this comfy world, there are many many people who just dont get ituntil a tragedy like this one happens close to home. The majority of them are tied economically to Wilsons little empire. (Try N.T. For some reason people like to heap backhanded praise upon their enemies in this culture: I may disagree with X, he may be quite dangerous, but hes quite a [fill in praise here]. 66% of those will never speak about it until they are adults if ever. to try my hand at it. Please read ALL the rules before posting! If Torres is telling the truth and Phillips abused her non-consensually, then it means that stay-at-home daughterhood (SAHD) and its promises of lifelong safety and security, is a fraud. That post caused quite an uproar, primarily due to this commentary by Wilson: Given that, either his sexual attentions were entirely unwelcome, or they were not. I have voted as my conscience dictated since I was 18. . If GP will cave to SBC outrage over a tweet in order to GET the contract, what else might they quietly cave on for the sake of KEEPING the contract or for getting the next one? Ive tried to say the same thing and was accused of not having sympathy for the victim, which no one can prove she was at this point. Well, if the standard is John Piper, I suppose Wilson is funny. C. of means 1. by 2. by the means of, 11. through A. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done In fact, when the couple got married in 2015, they choose to completely avoid meat during their wedding festivities, serving alternative dishes like hummus sandwiches, vibrant-looking salads, and more. And Johnny not only cannot read, he cannot think either. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, First Whackadoo in the Chickfila Bathroom. Besides which, there is little evidence that it would work in the typical abuse situation. We have long since learned that his elders were chosen amongst men who are unable or unwilling to hold him accountable for his words and behavior. We all smiled and that was that was the end of it. Maybe somebody has that in mind. Stay tuned! When its pointed out, he either ignores it or perhaps adds another trailer of explanation while pouring on the scorn. Solzhenitsyn said: You can maintain power over people as long as you give them something. I learned it when I was part of a pioneering network for Christian ministries to those infected or affected by HIV/AIDS, from 1987 to 1997. But I do love Prime, lol. ???? I lived in Pullman-Moscow from 1973-1986. Thank you for posting this. I think it is obvious that subjects such as spousal abuse, rape, and sexual abuse are better left to the experts in the field. Can there be any doubt at this point that pretty much the only chance to see justice done is in the secular courts? I have been guilty of this. There are very few geniuses but many good very smart people, the salt of the intellectual earth, really, who I immensely respect. Q&A sessions got heated. Wilson is some form of sociopath, for sure, but he does at least feel strongly and intensely over the moral virtues of loyalty (to him) and the power and wealth he is able to hand to his covenantal, biological, direct decedents.. If you dont know of any resources, check out Bozs website at http://www.netgrace.org for starters. Thanks for listening to me yaw on. Im glad cloistered in Idaho. (Remember Seven Brides for Seven Brothers? I see lying as intentional, and not disclosing info, or mis remembering a few key facts as something many chronic abuse survivors do. I am glad he stepped down from leadership, and am glad he cancelled his future speaking engagements, and that is all to the good. If you rock the boat, youre maligned, told youre out of Gods will and black listedand everyone knows better than to mention your name amidst the flock. You say that you were only going at most 30.5 mph and not 45 mph. Because he has always been in love with himself neither of these realities dissuade him from kissing his shaving mirror every morning and trotting out to spread his baloney far and wide. Given that, either his sexual attentions were entirely unwelcome, or they were not. One commenter, Stacy McDonald (wife of patriarch James McDonald a colleague of Doug Phillips), chimed in on April 18 with these remarks: Thank you, Pastor Wilson! She was invited to a particular professional meeting I planned to go to, and I wrote that groups board and asked them to consider cancelling her presentation because she was so controversial in our community. Sadly, these are only the ones that are scandals. These are not charismatic people in the larger sense, they are people that the culture at large and most Christians consider repulsive and uncharismatic. 5. on this account, Thayers Greek Lexicon has this meaning (among others): III. Ty 4 geography lesson! Could it be inerrancy? Anyone remember Cee Jay and his chuckle chuckle at everything he himself says? And, yes, I could have used other words besides appalling and distasteful . Please take a moment to review the rules listed in our sidebar. [6] Beall Phillips was herself adopted. The family integrated church is a movement that has Doug Phillips as one of its advocates has been not been embraced by the BBFI or by influential theologians in the GARBC. Second, this anti-freedom gridlock bounded choice and the psychology of totalism, glued together with the limiting realities of a total institution creates slaves to the system. It was VERY attractive. A 16-year-old boy is being held.. Some Southern Baptist leadership and some independent baptists have embraced this movement. , someone mentioned that Doug Phillips had warned his church about impending economic catastrophe. So really her story follows along these lines rather than what ol queen bee Stacy McDonald wants to jam it into: Luke 12:2 In a certain city there was a judge who did not fear God and did not respect man. This is about the widespread perception that there is impending chaos and destruction and people want themselves / their people / their group / their religion / their way of life to be what survives. From the head covering site. And now back to the topic at hand: Okay, I see what you are saying. Therefore, it must have been consensual. If I recall correctly his website SurvivalBlog is the most visited survivalist site on the internet, at least according to him. (Plus hes also a good writer. At the same time, of course, we should make allowances for those situations where an abused girl was never given the opportunity to become a responsible adult. Do we know what they are up to? Sadly, I am down to rationing my remaining beloved Sleepytime! These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Ugh. You bet, about 90 95% of cases filed are settled, and often an NDA is signed by all parties in which the terms of the settlement are kept confidential. My children have run across some local chivalrous teen neocals who like to get into that sort of thing, the old-fashioned knight-errant, adventurous, throwing down cloak for the lady, the type flush with doo-dads and paramilitary gadgets and swords and such from VF, humblebut in such a showy wayservants of God. . (Wow, Gwen. Hi Rosemary, Im another one of your fans. Just saying. But I am a cautious person and have read thousands of pleadings in my years of work. Besides, everyone is not going to believe her anyway. The first requirement of a Christian preacher is the ability to communicate, but Wilson is primarily concerned with signaling what a smart, witty guy he thinks he is. Nothing G sub-quality about that. Wasnt thinking! People who have never been through the bizarre, nasty hierarchy of Look at me!! I think that trying to argue intellectual points is interesting, but that is not really what this is about. This is what it means to use your power for the benefit of the other. That is, he has declared the plaintiff not to be a victim. Sault Ste Marie Milky Way timelapse photobombed by the Aurora Borealis over Loch More in Scotland. lets cross the river to Sault Ste Marie Canada and get some cheap weed. I doubt he sees the irony yet. This is what I imagine it might be like. It could be that Phillips did the things she says and that the facts were such that she, although an adult, was not responsible. Im not sure how much of mainstream America can get this kind of emotional mind games/emotional coercion. Not really. And maybe he can run for Idaho Gocernor!!!??? Marie2 wrote: He neglected to hear the church. Given the sin, that is what should happen. Never thought of the discussion here at TWW as a Quaker meeting (in a virtual sense ), but youve definitely got a point. have a case. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Hey!! I am indebted for this information to the late well-known impresario [Albert Marshall] Palmer of New York, and I made a note of it years before the term had become at all popular. My takeaway, after reading the above quotes, is that Wilson and McDonald are more interested in keeping their patriarchy brand unsullied than in seeing justice be done. All the universe is Gods, and everything in it. (RNS) Doug Phillips, an outspoken proponent of male dominion over women and a leading home-schooling activist, has stepped down as president of his Texas-based Vision Forum Ministries after admitting to an inappropriate relationship with a woman. The public debut of their relationship comes more than two years after Peter announced his divorce from Autumn Phillips, who he married in 2008. We contacted Dougs board and none of them would even look at the volumes of evidence we had against Doug. To this day I cant figure what he meant, let alone why it was funny. It seemed, on the surface, to be intellectually robust. Ive been there. But Doug Phillips has trumpeted himself as something of a Homeschool Messiah, a Beacon of Light and Goodness, a Man Above Men, a man capable of informing the rest of us whove been homeschooling and raise huge families for many years about ADVANCED Family Strategies, and making millions off such DVDs, books, conferences, mail order catalogs (with obscenely marked up merchandise), etc. PS After all that I have witnessed, I could believe that just about ANY poor interpretation of Jesus 2nd coming could exist, no matter how far-fetched. She was divisive, not into dialog. @ Tim: All I could picture when that was announced was how congested the airspace would be around major cities at Christmastime. She could be an in-demand speaker, author, or just live like a hermit. Menken early in life so that he could get this write-up published in Slate magazine much later. Along with the Duggars, hes The Face of Homeschooling and Big Families to thousands, maybe millions. "Given that, either his sexual attentions were entirely unwelcome, or they were not. All the universe is Gods, and everything in it. LawProf wrote: hope youre enjoying the coffee in the moderation cafe!! . Phillips denied the abuse charges, according to Julie Ingersoll, "calling them sensationalist and suggesting that they are motivated by a desire for financial gain. Just my not so humble, personal opinion on the issue, lol. Of course, he could have bought his way onto that list like Driscoll did. Though both cities share a natural landscape, the Canadian side has a social advantage with a younger drinking age at 19, better beer and a more leniant attitude and price for marijuana ( a quarter goes for $60- $80 Canadian). Oscar Wilde and Mark Twain were witty; Doug Wilson is a chainsaw. Yes! Id happily proclaim. I havent seen anything about the Phillips family or Vision Forum in a very long time. Please forgive me if Im making no sense. The two went on. Reading the Wartburg Watch, is for me, like going to Meeting. http://frombitterwaterstosweet.blogspot.com/2011/02/keep-sweet-conspiracy.html, I might agree with you if everybody carried a dictionary around with them and confined themselves to dictionary meanings. I have won cases where I thought there was no hope. Well, if the law in TX states that a counselee/parishioner (i.e., Torres) having an affair with their pastor (i.e., Doug) is not legally able to give consent and correct me if Im wrong that that is what that clergy sex abuse statute says and thats what was indeed going on, then Torres basically was in the position of a minor in the eyes of the law and theres nothing Wilson can do about it. Please modmail us with any questions. This is an important point in examining Pauls argumentation and reasoning. Firstly, I see no evidence for his starting premise. Recoiling from it is not the same thing as putting up with it for years. Just meant to say that people have an awfully hard time facing awful truths about their wonderful leader. He is a good man. But I do see your overall point Joe, or I think I do that both sides might not be disclosing the full truth of what was going on, but it is possible that Douggie has never had his logical faculties challenged before, and might not be realizing just how much he could be hanging himself by his words. He also founded theSan Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival, which former Sen. Rick Santorum attended this year. Not complicated at all. What he does do is point out the complicating features of this case. The thing is, and I think another commenter alluded to this: This Book was never intended to be the do-it-all-yourself manual that its been elevated to be in this particular camp. The couple first met back in 2014 on the very first season of Married at First Sight. Im not sure what Mr. C was trying to convey there and I think it was very distasteful on his part. Anyway, the board thanked me for my input, but thought her input would be important, so her session went on as planned. If Wilson is the intellectual wing of evangelicalism, I despair. But that may not give her any legal relief any more than it gives others in similar situations with charismatic religious figures relief. Hester is correct about the movement being proposed by James Wesley Rawles. Anniversary in 240 days . So we have here a civilization / culture which has drastically changed and which is rapidly continuing to change, and we see large groups of people gathering around what they perceive to be strong people. It eventually came back up. I believe that one defense of the dark arts is to learn to read the Bible for oneself, but that is a whole nuther topic. He has no idea what facts are going to be alleged or determined by a jury. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/22.011.00.html. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Its a preoccupation. Yes! Sigh. Such a matter could be dealt with privately within his church and locally by the civil courts and county law enforcement. Its not that he is witty so much as that its the only intellectual endeavor he values. I have been trying to eat a cold bologna sandwich with pepper jack cheese and banana peppers for breakfast. I wrote Hester that Doug interests me because he is like my father was. I work around people who would qualify for Mensa, I teach some, I married one, and the people I run with (not including myself in that category) could out-write, out-debate, and think spinning circles round Doug Wilson. Thanks for your insider commentary, Rosmary. Emhoff's kids, and Harris' step kids, Cole and Ella. @ Nancy: I agree that this whole case, in a courtroom, could be interpreted as a girlfriend boyfriend thing gone wrong, and some claims could be seen as exaggerated. Ty for sharing!!! And I am glad that I am not under your authority. Another case in point is Tim Challiies telling us how to think biblically about everything. Fear is unpredictable. But something either gets lost in translation, or he really is just delusional about funny he is(nt). In some ways his whole scene was really the antithesis to the empty, saccharine aesthetic of evangelicalism. Theyve been left with volition, but not bolstered by any real understanding of choice, and therefore not with valid consent. The fact that he is much older, married, and her employer, for one. Im not saying there shouldnt be some sort of restitution if her claims are proven true. God knew when He created Eve that salvation from the effects of the Fall was to be through the womans seed.. The general leanings of the website, anonymously river to Sault Ste Marie Canada and some. Ears with terms like perv and lech by which anything is effected theyve been left volition! Funny he is like my father was and county law enforcement over people as long as you them. 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