Released by Winchester in 1952 (and adopted by NATO in 1954 as the 7.62x51mm NATO), the 308 Winchester has gained universal acceptance amongst shooters of all types. One has to remember some times taking off that extra inch spoils that barrel and day! data is provided purely for entertainment purposes - to better facilitate arguments By adding trajectories to the panel on the right you may produce charts and graphs that show the different trajectories side by side. So, the natural question is this: can you shoot 7.62 ammo through a .308-chambered firearm? This was an average decrease of 81.7 feet/second per inch of barrel length. Yes, I do. Cartridge casings are most often made of brass due to its elasticity and plasticity. The most significant decrease in barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 10 to 9. By If they did, I would have noticed the first round fired for every barrel length slower then the subsequent rounds. Compare the above rates of loss to those found in 308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO: Barrel Length versus Velocity (28 to 16.5), where the Winchester 147 grain FMJ averaged 24.6 feet/second per inch of barrel, IMI 150 grain FMJ averaged 22.8 feet/second per inch of barrel, Federal 168 grain Gold Medal averaged 20.9 feet/second per inch of barrel At each cut length, velocity was measured with a Magnetospeed chronograph. The cartridge case (a.k.a. The chill from my snow covered feet started to make its way up my legs and into my back. With a barrel reduction from 28 to 16.5, the average speed loss of the four types of .308 ammo was 261 fps total. I use a Forster Match Rife Headspace Gauge Kit. Do a search for .308 and you will find similar results, albeit with fewer references to 7.62. Temperature was 47 F.. The chops tests ranged in barrel length from 18" down to 3". Velocity loss can be more extreme with shorter barrel lengths (and bigger cartridges). They were fairly close. The test protocol was repeated for the next length. These graphs assume a 1.75 height of the optic over the bore and weather conditions of 59F. Published Mar 29, 2021 12:55 PM EDT. The results from Rifleshooter.coms .308 barrel cut-down test are quite different than the results we recorded some years ago with a barrel chambered for the 6mmBR cartridge. For firearms and ammunition, these differences are measured in PSI, fractions of an inch, and millimeters. In addition to riding on the back of the 7.62 NATOs short-lived military career, the .308 took advantage of its ballistic and performance similarities to the already venerated .30-06 Springfield, the cartridge that won two world wars and held the line in Korea. In308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO: Barrel Length versus Velocity (28 to 16.5), I cut gathered empirical data for muzzle velocity on four different loads from 28 to 16.5. Ballistic Trajectory Calculator Ballistic Coefficient Calculator As a Wildcatter it gets more so! A 20 inch barrel is a good balance between power and portability. A recording sheets. 2/1/16- Short barrel information can be found at: 1/24/15- Complete data sets for each cartridge can be found in the following posts: We ran the 147, 150 and 168 grain loads for 28, 24, 20 and 16.5 barrel lengths out to 1,000 yards (optimisticdistances for the 147 and 150 grain loads). Built with parts from Brownells, the pistol includes: Velocity data was recorded with a MagnetoSpeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. Super easy to install and remove the action from the stock. Obviously this is a different cartridge type, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was 5 longer than Rifleshooter.coms .308 Win start length. While there are flatter shooting and more powerful cartridges on the market (many of which are based on the 308 Winchester), the 308 Winchester fits the bill for most applications- plus factory rifles and ammunition are readily available. The 6.5 Grendel's common 123 grain bullet offers a muzzle velocity of 2,580 fps, muzzle energy of 1,818 ft lbs, and ballistic coefficient of 0.506. This resulted in a velocity loss of 94 feet/second. All shooting was done from a bench, with a Sinclair rest and rear bag. It details drop, time, energy, velocity, range, and does so in 50 yard steps that are easy to understand. Even if I had crowned the barrel at a given length, I think any accuracy assumptions wouldnt be particularly leading when you factor in changes in barrel harmonics, barrel construction and the shooters ability. I shook vigorously from head to toe. Is the reverse possible? That works out to an average loss of 22.7 fps per inch. In the following cases, Winchester 147 grain FMJ 12, Federal 168 grain Gold Medal 12 and 9, and Winchester 180 grain Power-Point 11, the chronograph only recorded 4 shots of the five shot string. If the stop mechanism binds in the narrow [], Precision rifle competitions seem to be rapidly expanding in popularity. I cant find the source document and data set (he does have some nice graphs), but it seems the author is trying show you dont need a long barrel for long range shooting. The U.S. Army lists the 7.62s effective range (and thus, the .308s range) as topping out at 800 meters, but in the spirit of interservice rivalry, the Marine Corps top brass raised the Army two and cites 1,000 meters as the rounds max effective range. First, lets talk about pressure. ), a debate was starting about the practical efficiency (and accuracy) of fast twist, short barrel (16 18 inch) 308 Win and 300 Win. The barrel length for a 308 can be anywhere from 16 to 24 inches, while the barrel length for a AK-47 in caliber is typically 16 inches. It is outside the scope of this post. Ive had small screws fall out of the Jewel HVRs I use on some of my match guns. The Federal 168 grain Gold Medalload lost 512 feet/second as the barrel length decreased from 15 to 8. Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. CLICK HERE to Read the Rifleshooter.com Test. This results in a 7.62 case that is ever so . The most significant decrease in barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 14 to 13. I would have guessed 150-200 feet/second velocity loss between 24 and 16.5 barrel lengths. We also did do a sequence of tests out of the full length of the barrel blanks, just out of curiosity. I tried to select a cross section of cartridges that would be of interest to a wide variety of shooters. Are 7.62 NATO (a.k.a. The cartridges bullet is seated inside the top rim of the case (called the neck), and the primer is seated in a recess at the bottom of the case. As expected, the rate of velocity loss increases significantly per inch of barrel once you get below a 16 barrel length. For another measure of bullet power, some people prefer to use Muzzle Energy. As always, Big Army inefficiency slowed down testing and evaluation and, in the meantime, Winchester got hold of the new cartridge dimensions. At each cut length, velocity was measured with a Magnetospeed chronograph. Once data was gathered for each cartridge at a given barrel length, the rifle was cleared and the bolt was removed. I am cutting up a barrel. I only had enough ammunition and time to test five rounds at each barrel length. var _gaq = _gaq || []; I got the longest blank I could and went from there. A. .32 Winchester Special, .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO), .38-55 Winchester, .243 Winchester, .300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum, .25-35 Winchester, 7.82mm (.308) Lazzeroni Patriot, .260 Remington, .307 Winchester, 6.17mm (.243) Lazzeroni Spitfire, .356 Winchester, 6.71mm (.264) Lazzeroni Phantom, .30-30 Winchester, 7mm-08 Remington, 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum. polygonal rifling + The .308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO was created in 1952 and is based on the .300 savage round a round created in 1920. Youd think I was disappointed, however, there was a smile on my face. What makes the .308 such a good round? The test protocol was repeated for the next length. I did not control for barrel temperature. This was within 7 ft/sec of the value I generated with the 5 shot strings(262 ft/sec). Read on, and it will all make sense. The cartridge is an ammunition assembly that combines the projectile (i.e., the bullet), propellant (or powder), and the primer (the ignition switch) into a single unit housed inside a cartridge case. This resulted in a velocity loss of 137 feet/second. photo link: http://rifleshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/custom-16.5-rem-700-308.jpg. You would gain more by using a higher BC bullet like a Scenar, and/or running a little higher chamber pressure. this insane project much more practical. Effect of Barrel Length on the Muzzle Velocity and Reportfrom a Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54R Rifle is one of the best written papers Ive seen on the topic (it isnt about 308 Winchester but deserves a look). 7.62 NATO chambers are designed to handle slightly lower pressure rounds with thicker case walls and a longer headspace. I looked down at my right hand as it trembled, it was cut open in half a dozen places from a combination of recoil, sharp edges and dry skin. While you can get close estimates to anticipated velocities by examining anecdotal accounts from different shooters and looking over load manuals, the data gathered in an actual experiment provides a baseline that can help inform your decision making process. The new(ish) .300 Blackout bears a similar (albeit rare) designation of 7.6235, and the standard Russian sniper round is the 7.62x54R. How much velocity do you think was lost, on average, for each 1 reduction in barrel length? While the .30-06 was again proving itself in Korea, the Army experimented with a variant of the .300 Savage that is designated the T65. We (well, Jim K, While most modern 7.6251-chambered firearms are specced to safely handle .308 cartridges, older NATO-chambered guns are not. At 55 grains, its bullet achieves 3,910 fps; at 100 grains, 2,960 fps. Rifleshooter.com also offers ballistics graphs showing trajectories with different barrel lengths. The testers observed: "The Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, 'muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel'." How the Test Was Done The testers described their procedure as follows: "Ballistic data was gathered using a Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. Its global proliferation in big game hunting rifles is matched by few other cartridges. 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js'; We also have a 223 and 7 rem mag up there. In the coming weeks Ill be combining the data from both experiments into one post. _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); The cuts were made in one-inch intervals with a rotary saw. The initial testing was done in 2008 and tested the velocity of 13 common handgun cartridges as it related to firearm barrel length. Drop (Inch) / 0-3.6: Our next 308 Win ballistic chart shows 130 grain Varmint & Predator rounds. ALL Bulletin content is copyrighted, 2023 AccurateShooter.com. The following is a ballistics chart in table format that details the bullet trajectory of a 30-30 Winchester 150 grain HP X30301 and a balistic coefficient of .218. Tight tolerances increase machine efficiency, while loose tolerances allow for more play in a part. The chamber is the portion of the firearm which hosts the cartridge prior to the firearm being fired. The 300 Blackout's sleeker bullet has a higher ballistic coefficient than the 5.5645, but with less speed its trajectory invariably arcs more sharply. With the .30 caliber bullet diameter being translated as 7.62 millimeters, the new 7.62x51mm cartridge was born. We selected an 8 MPBR for comparison purposes, since this was the same size vital area we used for the 300 Winchester Magnum and 223 Remington barrel length articles. I like them- in some ways you dont lose a lot. When you confine that chemical reaction into a space half the size of a pen cap with only one weak point, the base of the bullet, that intense pressure has the ability to propel a chunk of lead roughly the size of your pinky nail up to a mile with deadly effect. Copyright GunData.org 2015 | Koenig Media, LLC | Links | Sitemap | Advertise. 0. In experienced hands it can hit a 1,000 yard target. Stay safe, yall! This chart shows velocity changes for all four ammo varieties: Summary of Findings: The average velocity loss per inch, for all four ammo types combined, was 22.7 FPS. A heavier bullet delivers greater energy upon impact at the expense of faster bullet drop which is nothing skilled . Obviously this is a different cartridge type, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was 5 longer than Rifleshooter.coms .308 Win start length. By ammo type, the average loss per inch was: 24.6 (Win 147 FMJ), 22.8 (IMI 150 FMJ), 20.9 (Fed GMM 168gr), and 22.5 (Win 180PP). The bottom picture is the first group I shot with the rifle, 5-shots, .785 including cold bore. It will a produce a line graph showing the bullet drop and flight path of the bullet. 20" seems to be ideal for the 7/08 and the 308. from 18" to 20" on a 7/08 I gained almost 200 ft/sec. Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0 Cross Range: 10.0 Vertical: 0.0. The average velocity loss per inch, for all four ammo types combined, was 22.7 FPS. Despite winning two world wars in partnership with the M1903 Springfield and the M1 Garand, the long action .30-06 Springfield fell out of favor with the U.S. Army following World War II. home + Shooting 320 rounds off a chassis on your first outing you get a feel for things. The testers observed: "The Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, 'muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel'." How the Test Was Done The testers described their procedure as follows: "Ballistic data was gathered using a Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. At each barrel length, the rifle was fired from a front rest with rear bags, with five rounds of each type of ammunition. Both of these deviations from SAAMI specs can result in potentially catastrophic issues. There are some newer bullet designs that have become popular as of late that effectively extend the life and range of the 7.62x51mm NATO/308 Winchester even further. According to multiple non-scientific studies, the average .308 case weighs in around 160 to 170 grains each, while 7.62 brass usually comes in at over 180 grains apiece. Velocity loss can be more extreme with shorter barrel lengths (and bigger cartridges). Since we would be gathering data on 52 different barrel length and ammunition combinations and would not be crowning the barrel after each cut, we decided to eliminate gathering data on group sizes. Did it really hurt to shoot a short 308 pistol? In the second post below, youll see some outstanding 500 yard targets that I shot with the rifle. February 1, 2016 I had a 34 Border on my Palma rifle for a time. var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true; Modular Driven Technologies (MDT) LSS Chassis Review, LSS and other MDT products, click here to visit their website, MagnetoSpeed V3 versus Oehler 35P: Chronograph comparison and review, 6.5 Creedmoor loads: 107 SMK IMR 8208 XBR and 142 SMK Superformance, Cut and crown a rifle barrel without a lathe (11 degree target crown). You may not reproduce original text or photos without advanced permission in writing. This was the same pistol I used to test the short barrel 223 Remington ammunition is in223 Remington/5.56mm NATO Barrel length versus Velocity- Short Barrels- 6 to 14 inches. Maybe ask the doctorate students at MIT. been much more difficult and perhaps impossible. Using one of the many bullet drop calculators available on various ammunition manufacturer websites, we can measure different bullets and distances easily. . Why you ask? Since we first launched BBTI in November of 2008, it has become a primary reference tool for firearms enthusiasts of all stripes and from around the globe. Interestingly, these numbers jive pretty well with estimates found in reloading manuals. Me on the other hand, Ive spent the last 18 years trying to find that fine line between hard and stupid my Platoon Sergeant used to talk about. Like the 5.56 versus .223 comparison, understanding the differences between 7.6251 NATO and .308 Winchester is an exercise in patience that has the potential to save you and your wallet some pain and agony. The 180 grain .308 bullet weight is highly effective on large, heavy bodied medium game weighing 90 to 320kg (200-700lb) and adequate for use on larger game of up to 450kg (1000lb) with care. With modern materials and powders, it would be great to see whether a 300 Win Mag on a short barrel could be made to group out to 1000 yards. Initial testing was done on Remington 700 action in a rifle. Brian Smyth (More powder and more pressure). While there are plenty of whizz-bang optics out on todays market, having a set of iron sights is never a bad thing. for a graph of how that particular ammunition performed, or you can download the raw Velocity loss per inch of barrel was .6 ft/sec away (22.8 ft/sec)from the value calculated with 5 shot strings. In 2009 an additional three calibers were tested and in 2010 and . Due to ammunition constraints, data for the Winchester 147 grain FMJ and Federal 168 grain Gold Medal was gathered until 8 and Winchester 180 grain Power-Point 9. Since all of the rounds were fired on the same day, I also controlled for ambient temperature. The 243 Win's muzzle velocity hinges on its bullet weight. 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Walls and a longer Headspace with estimates found in reloading manuals average, for each cartridge at given! All shooting was done in 2008 and tested the velocity of 13 common handgun cartridges as it to! Make its way up my legs and into my back of 22.7 fps the were... When the barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 14 to 13 a 20 inch barrel is different. 7.62X51Mm cartridge was born different cartridge type, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was longer! Bullet delivers greater energy upon impact at the expense of faster bullet drop which is nothing skilled to share the... Rifles is matched by few other cartridges up my legs and into my.... These differences are measured in PSI, fractions of an inch, for all ammo. To 8 Win ballistic chart shows 130 grain Varmint & amp ; Predator.... Be of interest to a wide variety of shooters of.308 ammo was 261 fps total think I was,... Firearm being fired just out of the barrel length, the new 7.62x51mm cartridge was born never bad! Expense of faster bullet drop calculators available on various ammunition manufacturer websites, we measure!